Possible to build RP within 800m of friendly objective

[[1]MB|Pvt.kju]

At least we were told that this should no longer work and it still did.

It should be XXXm from each objective no matter you own it or not.

While thinking about it the XXXm circle radius should be displayed even
during the match to avoid people have to study and remember it.
This element should be obvious and not require extra preparation.

[[AToW]ViperMaul]

It is already this way.
Our original conversation in Skype, I was wrong.
There has been repeated evidence for the last 3 battleday's that you are allowed to create a RP, within as close to 100 meters of a friendly objective.

[[1]MB|Pvt.kju]

Well the ticket is saying that it is not expected behavior.

At least our leaders did not. Personally gameplay wise I think it is better not be able to
as both attacker and defender.

[[AToW]ViperMaul]

Well, Actually my current thoughts are allowing the friendly RP to be placed within 400 meters of a Friendly Objective, while being 800 meters away from enemy Objective. And continue to work if that changes due to capture of Objective, however if enemies are within 100 meters of RP that is does not spawning is frozen.

This risk factor of near by enemies makes you think about where to place your RP.

So this is a potential change if approved, assuming we keep using RPs in C6.

Is the reason why you thing Friendlies should also be restricted to 800 meters because it is too hard for the attacking teams to capture?

[{8}72|PFC.DogOne]

Kinda makes sense to have it locked at 800m for both teams. It gives the same success chances when attacking and/or defending to both teams.

[[1]MB|Pvt.kju]

Placing RP inside objectives is a massive advantage.
As DogOne says placement should be distant for both teams.

[[1]MFR.BarmyArmy]

Agreed it was never intented that rallypoint could be created inside an or in proximity to an objective.

[[AToW]ViperMaul]

Agreed Never allow Placing RP inside objectives.
However Barmy I proximity of a friendly objective should not be 800 meters I don't believe. Only 800 from enemy Only to prevent RP being *inside* an objective. We still have the recording with Wormeaten on this one.

But there are differing opinions here. Which is fine. Perhaps a meet somewhere in between.

[[AToW]ViperMaul]

Kinda makes sense to have it locked at 800m for both teams. It gives the same success chances when attacking and/or defending to both teams.

On the surface, it seems to make sense. However
I have two reasons why I don't think it should be this way.

1) I will need a screen shot here to really communicate the issue. But because there are so may objectives in close proximity between one another, it is too easy to predict where the rally points can be placed.

2) First of all spawning forward, is partly meant to simulate a large army. If you are attacking in enemy territory you would expect the army to be crawling with the enemy, if not entrenched. So yeah the perception being, "Damn we just killed 8 guys and in 2-5 minutes I am seeing 8-10 more enemies near the zone."

The rules of the RP placement that was given to the mod was almost reversed. Probably due to the pressure of everyone not wanting to wait. They wanted to start the tourney.

The rules were supposed to be:

Now watch the difference here...

* Allowed to place an RP 800-1000 meters from center of a friendly Zone (using the flag as the reference point). Originally we said the Sector. <--EDITED
* You lose that friendly Zone and you lose the use of that RP. You have to dismantle and re-create in a value location. <--EDITED

* You could not place RP inside any objective or Zone. Friendly or Enemy.

* If an enemy foot patrol of 2 or more enemies are in close proximity of the RP (100 meters) the RP would be temporarily disabled until they left.

* if 3 or more friendly died within a proximity of the RP (100 meters) the RP would be destroyed.

These restrictions which 99% of them were taken from some of the early Project Reality rules were taken for a reason. It address both concerns I mentioned above. Especially concern #1

With the way it is now I can predict to within 100-300 meters where any really point would be. And both rally points from the same team would potentially be in the same 100-300 meter grid. It is too restrictive for the original vision of RPs.

[[1]MB|Pvt.kju]

Two is more important. This is why 800m distance should be reviewed.
This is probably too much. More like 400-600m for the current unit/vehicle set.
As Hitman said, you are almost never go the direct way. So practically you have 1.5-3x
the distance to the zone.

One is mostly related to 800m. Also people are supposed to protect their RP.
So to me this is not a bad thing at all.

[[AToW]ViperMaul]

MB|Pvt.kju']
This is probably too much. More like 400-600m for the current unit/vehicle set.


I agree to this if we are speaking about proximity to friendly zones/objectives. And the proximity to enemy obj stays to the larger 800m. I would be fine 400m for the RP restriction to proximity to the Friendly obj. Why did you use the term "current unit/vehicle set" instead of RP?

I am probably mistaken, but this makes me believe you are talking about a vehicle spawning at an Rally Point within 400-600m. I must have oops on your meaning. Forgive me. I just want to be sure what you are saying.

[{8}72|PFC.DogOne]

ViperMaul']
1) I will need a screen shot here to really communicate the issue. But because there are so may objectives in close proximity between one another, it is too easy to predict where the rally points can be placed.

Heres the "near the same" Zone setup example SS:
http://img3.imageshack.us/i/94099483.jpg/http://img3.imageshack.us/i/94099483.jpg/

Lets say that, no matter who is in control of a Zone, both teams can not place RP inside 800m from center of a Zone.
If both teams stay 800m out of the center, I think there is no easy way to predict where the RP's are. Even harder if FT's decide to place RP's a little more outside of the 800m circle border. And, you will have the same odds as attacking and as defending.

ViperMaul']
2) If you are attacking in enemy territory you would expect the army to be crawling with the enemy, if not entrenched. So yeah the perception being, "Damn we just killed 8 guys and in 2-5 minutes I am seeing 8-10 more enemies near the zone."


Actually, in real life its exactly the opposite. You wont go attacking enemy territory if you dont have the overwhelming power on your side.
If Defending team puts his RP at 400m and Attacking team have his RP at 800m, then Defenders are coming back (re-spawning) into battle as twice as fast, which in practical sense, is translated as 200 defenders vs 100 attackers. Those attackers must be really foolish if they think that they can win by rushing at the double man sized, entrenched enemy, especially when the equipment is balanced. To me, the real deal sounds like Attackers at 400 and Defenders at 800. :D

ViperMaul']
* If an enemy foot patrol of 2 or more enemies are in close proximity of the RP (100 meters) the RP would be temporarily disabled until they left.

* if 3 or more friendly died within a proximity of the RP (100 meters) the RP would be destroyed.

Both make sense and sound good. :)

[[1]MB|Pvt.kju]

Well it means what it says.

Vehicle set = HWMMV respawn at FOB, helicopters transport.

800 m RP distance currently is often not useful compared to the two alternatives.

As explained it is hardly ever anything close to 800m walking distance, yet more
like twice or more that you are to walk for the stated and obvious reasons.

So again 800 m RP distance is too much.

Of course for the special forces intercepting units this is a different matter as
their main goal is to intercept units and not the objective itself.

[[AToW]ViperMaul]

Heres the "near the same" Zone setup example SS:
http://img3.imageshack.us/i/94099483.jpg/http://img3.imageshack.us/i/94099483.jpg/

Lets say that, no matter who is in control of a Zone, both teams can not place RP inside 800m from center of a Zone.
If both teams stay 800m out of the center, I think there is no easy way to predict where the RP's are. Even harder if FT's decide to place RP's a little more outside of the 800m circle border. And, you will have the same odds as attacking and as defending.


Actually DogOne, if the current way (based on objectives) works was like your screenshot (based on zones), I would feel better. However it is worse then that. In order to accurately represent what is happening currently, you have to draw 800m circles from each and every objective within the zones. Then look at the screen shot. You find there are only a few areas where you could place RPs *if* it was both 800m from *any* objectives.


Actually, in real life its exactly the opposite. You wont go attacking enemy territory if you dont have the overwhelming power on your side.
If Defending team puts his RP at 400m and Attacking team have his RP at 800m, then Defenders are coming back (re-spawning) into battle as twice as fast, which in practical sense, is translated as 200 defenders vs 100 attackers.


I agree with your logic there DogOne.

However, remember this is a simulation of 200 defenders (reinforcing) vs 100. And we also simulate reinforcements through travel time. All 200 are not instantly entrenched in the one objective. Travel time is 2 minutes because when you die, it is 60 seconds, say 10-15 seconds to get from main base to the map board and spawn to your defending RP. And if it is even 100 meters from the OBJ we can say 2 minutes to return.

This is why I shake my head when both teams at different times in our campaign past attack an objective with only 2 or 3 men. You say foolish to attack 100 vs 200 defenders. You are right. This is why we should be seeing ATOW attack with nothing less than 8 to 10 players assuming the most we ever see in defense of one Objective is 5. Achieve a 2-to-1 attack ratio. And if 10 players cannot kill 5 players inside of 2 minutes then they do not deserve to capture the OBJ.

Remember, if 10 attacks 5 and lets say you lose more than you kill (7). But you kill all 5. This leaves you with 3 in the OBJ. It only takes 30 seconds to capture an Objective once you set the right conditions. And boy you deserve it since you were able to coordinate 10 solders and killed 5 attackers and overcome any handicaps. And don't forget you only need to kill 3 of those 5 (assuming no handicaps). So if 10 cannot kill 2 in a 10v5 fight again you do not deserve to capture the objective. Killing 3 means you have dropped them below the minimun-number-to-defend factor which your leaders should have done the research and know this is 3.

Let's say it went badly. This 10v5 you lose 5 but you finally kill 3. Now you have 5 remaining and they have 2 remaining. 3 more than the enemy has been achieved. If you manage to hold that condition for 30 sec then you when the OBJ.

So even with RPs allowed to be really close it can be done. This is why this campaign we saw some success in the initial attacks and the final 20 minutes attacks at the end. Even when the defenders knows you are coming.

So yeah 100 vs 200 but with the proper coordination and aggressiveness and tactics this does not matter.