Bradley for C2?

[[DI]I|SSGT.Sprite]

After this weeks battle, me and overlord both agreed that whilst the russians by default have a weaker tank their APC's are far superior. I remembered that Vilas released a Bradley as part of his vibi pack (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=917). I just loaded it into the editor on its own to do an RPT file check - there are no issues with it, I fired all guns etc to try to make it give errors.

I propose that this bradley is implemented to make it more even, with some discussion we have agreed that it would be best to replace the Stryker family. We could either make its the SAM or keep the stryker as a SAM only.

[Goldman]

I second that. A Bradley would be a good addition.

[AToW.DaMan]

Sounds good to me, what do we need to do to test this (as I know the MOD team are uber busy). If we need to test on a dedi server we can use mine.

DaMan.

[{UN}Coolio (Retired)]

Will get my vote.

[[ATOW]BarmyArmy]

Someone please wake up the balance team!

Ruiners-TS
Artillery
Vibi vehicle pack

All need looking at.

BA

[[UN]Sedim]

I just looked at Vibi's personal site, the site is terrible but the list of addons is rather impressive.

[AToW.DaMan]

Myself and Jimmy just completed some test on the villas bradley and found some problems.
Bradley does not float, however it also doesnt die when submerged. therefore we have a apc capable of traveling underwater.
Also it has no damage model (if shot in tracks whole vehicle goes yellow/red).

Boss has been working on a bradley I suggest we wait for his return and see what he says.


DaMan.

[Goldman]

Thanks for testing it DaMan and Jimmy.

Until it's error free and has a proper damage-model... don't use it.

[[ATOW]BarmyArmy]

Boss is a bit hors'de combat at the moment as I understand.

Can we fix the models and add proper damage textures ?

BA

[{7}21|BOSS]

Hi fellas well on the bradley update info is that i have permission to release the bradley in only desert version,but as it's just a clan thing so maybe i could make the woodland version for us just for clan, as vilas only wants me to release only desert version for the public.

But vilas has released the woodlands version as a public release so maybe we could use his version and mine at same time which there would not be any problems in doing it that way round ,let me know your thoughts on that take.

[Goldman]

Using 2 differently built bradleys with 2 different colors ?
Don't get the release policy on this...

Anyway, I think US only needs a Woodland version (if we continue to fight on Sahrani Island)

Again: If this has a good damage model and no errors... it would be great.

[{UN}.Nurmdog]

Agreed, Woodland is the one we want most.

[[ATOW]BarmyArmy]

Fix what you can - we need some form of woodland vehicle.

Make sure we offer all changes we make back to the author, let him choose what is released, and ask him to credit us with fixing the bugs.

If he doesn't want to release publically then can our modifications to his work privately ?


BA

[[IRT]Super64]

Took a spin in this recently released Bradley. While it hold potential, it still suffers from a few things that need "fixing".

The real Bradley is amphibious. This one is not. Its an anchor.
When in the driver seat, Turn Out is not an option. You have to look through the little peep slots.
When in Commander view, you are at a locked focal distance. No zoom.
Available in any color as long as you like Sand Camo Tan.Nice article on the real Bradley:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bradley

Things I liked about it:

3 Weapon options - TOW, 25mm MG, 7.62mm MG.
Armor seemed realistic. An ATGM destroys it. A MK19 or ACS30 takes a number of hits to knock it out.
It can carry troops in its cargo.

[{A}1|PFC.Powder]

Sorry to say this Super but i dont think the real Bradley is amphibious.

[Mickd{Ret}]

it is.......

[{A}1|PFC.Powder]

Sorry my bad

[[DI]I|SSGT.Sprite]

Im sure it is - with floats though.

The M2A0 was amphibious with the use of a "Swim Barrier"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Bradley
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/DA-SC-85-11316.JPG
M2A0 getting wet.

[Mickd{Ret}]

TB|Cpl.Sprite.;71252']Im sure it is - with floats though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Bradley
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/DA-SC-85-11316.JPG
M2A0 getting wet.


that was the first production version in the 1980s. I think they are now fully amphib without shrouds

[[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD]

Real Bradly is amphibious when you have a canvas skirt around the vechical that makes it look gay and i dont give 2 shits if it isn't amphibious we just want a vechical that can be comparied to a BMP-2. Anyways the main user of this will be TB so that we can have a good vechical to back a M1A1 than a ducking Stryker with only a punny M2 or Mk19 (esspcaily when in Vech vs Vech combat (dont even ask about that pice of BLEEPING BLEEP ATGM version)) If we remove the BMP and gave the russain a BTR-80 it would be fair but the way russains are like is they whant someting better rather than downgrading to be fair (i dont blame them i would to). And thats why im supporting this.

In other words the people that are going to use this vechical (if implemented) do not care that its is or isn't amphibious.
but i also do not like the non-turn out abillity, be we in the TB can drive turn in so that not that much of an issue.
commander seat on a BMP-2 cant zoom in or our either so its fair (before anyone ask i was just in the editor)
last the cammo is an issue but i belive we can sort this out

[{A}1|PFC.Powder]

This is from Super64 link:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bradley

All Bradleys are amphibious. Earlier models are equipped with a water barrier, which is fitted by the crew before entering the water. A3 models have an inflatable pontoon which fits on the front and sides of the vehicle. Water propulsion is provided by tracks and the Bradley can attain a maximum speed of 7.2km/h in water.

[[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD]

that was the first production version in the 1980s. I think they are now fully amphib without shrouds

Mickd just found this out

"the Bradley was initially designed to float by deploying a flotation curtain around the vehicle. This caused some drownings due to failures during its first trials. Armor upgrades negate this capability ie. reactive armour"

so it isn't amphibious if it has upgraded armour on it so talk about amphibious capibilities are over

One other thing before we get another thead with
"it is"
"no it isn't"
"no it is"
post going on can people research before you post? is it to hard?

[PuFu_]

Amphibious is not a real concern. That is a really easy fix in the config. It really takes about 2 seconds.
There are several other problems with the desert bradley, and with the one released by vilas as well. (2 front wheels are not spining, hit points are not configs as they should, huge number of sections for an arma vehicle. This are things that no one seems to have mentioned or cared about.

[Mickd{Ret}]

TB|Sgt.Overlord;71258']is it to hard?

no it isnt

[[ATOW]BarmyArmy]

For the moment lets look at any other issues with the Bradley besides wether it sinks or floats, fixing that is a simple issue ( once you all agree ).

Topics seem to include...

* number of hit zones
* damage models
* turn in/turn out

[[8]72|Pvt.SnowMan]

Better keep this quite or the Russians will cry FOUL!!!!!

Check this out for complete specs on the Bradley: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m2.htm

Now you'll need to decide which variant.....

Oh, and YES IT FLOATS!!!!


----One other thing that I should point out, which everyone seemed to have missed, is that this is a U.S. Army vehicle not a U.S. Marine Corps. vehicle!!

SnowMan

[Steveak44]

I will reverse my normal position regarding realism and video games and say that since it is not a USMC vehicle it cannot be used. There ya go... +1 for the realism guys.

[[DI]I|SSGT.Sprite]

not USMC you say so just like the UH-60 and the Stryker to name a few...

[Steveak44]

TB|Cpl.Sprite.;71318']not USMC you say so just like the UH-60 and the Stryker to name a few...


Ok I guess for realism sake they must go too

[{UN}.Nurmdog]

Awesome Steve, make us a proper UH-1Z and a LAV-25 and we are in business.

[Steveak44]

cant do it, Nurm. I don't have the skills or time. You know me...just trying to promote realism in a video game.:rolleyes:

[[DI]I|Cpl.Dren]

Haha, damn with you guys.
Just btw dont mind the color, we can make green one.
Now just fix the problems what you found out.
And actually yes, steve did give some nice punches for "realism guys" ;)

[[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD]

I also like to point out a Russain M1A1 and Russain Cobra aren't Russain millitry either, same with a T-72 frankentank and RPG-7 with the damage/armour values on those. Then you have a reloadable M136, a M4 with brust fire modes, Valcun that can fire Surface to Air Missiles/Shilka that can do the same. Radar on a tanks and even HMMWV's/UAZ's. The lists goes on.

Simple point to matter is the Russain army in this toruny are fictional and same with the US Marines, some people seam to think realism over gameplay which will lead to very crap battles. It's getting a balance of those things which will make for the best battles in Arma tournuments.

I would like to see a LAV-25 more than a Bradley but there is no LAV-25 out there that we know of, so the very next thing close to that is the Bradley which is out for us to use. There are a few issuse with this one available but i belive these can be sorted out with time. Hey we fixed the RHS Hind... mostly, and most of you know how buggy that was.

The thing with the Villas bradley (same as BOSS's bradley) is that villas has a addon PBO that is needed to make some things work. Not to sure if the Bradley needs this PBO to make it work properly?

[[ATOW]BarmyArmy]

I think VBS1 had an LAV-25. (WRONG!!!)

BA

[[8]72|Pvt.SnowMan]

TB|Sgt.Overlord;71336']I also like to point out a Russain M1A1 and Russain Cobra aren't Russain millitry either, same with a T-72 frankentank and RPG-7 with the damage/armour values on those. Then you have a reloadable M136, a M4 with brust fire modes, Valcun that can fire Surface to Air Missiles/Shilka that can do the same. Radar on a tanks and even HMMWV's/UAZ's. The lists goes on.

Simple point to matter is the Russain army in this toruny are fictional and same with the US Marines, some people seam to think realism over gameplay which will lead to very crap battles. It's getting a balance of those things which will make for the best battles in Arma tournuments.

I would like to see a LAV-25 more than a Bradley but there is no LAV-25 out there that we know of, so the very next thing close to that is the Bradley which is out for us to use. There are a few issuse with this one available but i belive these can be sorted out with time. Hey we fixed the RHS Hind... mostly, and most of you know how buggy that was.

The thing with the Villas bradley (same as BOSS's bradley) is that villas has a addon PBO that is needed to make some things work. Not to sure if the Bradley needs this PBO to make it work properly?
Your are correct on all your points Overlord.
I was not in favor of the current use of equipment. Not then, not now..If it were up to me, Russia would be playing with Russian equipment, US Marines would be playing with USMC equipment period.. Unless of course the US is Army and not Marine then it would be US Army equipment.


SnowMan

[{Ret}Bond]

1st|Pfc.SnowMan;71350']Your are correct on all your points Overlord.
I was not in favor of the current use of equipment. Not then, not now..If it were up to me, Russia would be playing with Russian equipment, US Marines would be playing with USMC equipment period.. Unless of course the US is Army and not Marine then it would be US Army equipment.


SnowMan

Well I'm thankful that it isn't left up to you.

There wouldn't be much of a Russian to fight against, meaning that either the teams would have to be balanced out to cater the loss of manpower from the Russian resignations due to unfair battlefield conditions or the weapons/vehicles would get balanced out to compensate the advantage gifted to US regarding the stock US BIS gear over the stock RUS BIS gear.

[[IRT]Super64]

Dont get too worked up Bond. Thankfully the majority see arma as a game that needed some balance to be enjoyable in PvP.

[Steveak44]

Coolio,

How was that? Did I http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Steveak44/funny/witch_stirring_pot_hg_blk.gif enough? ROFL.

[{UN}Coolio (Retired)]

Ya know you are the worst agent provocateur in my staff of mindless robots, and if you dont shape up your game Ill have to pull your license to aimbot, along with all the other privileges you have been enjoying here at atow.

- Your Puppet Master

[[8]72|Pvt.SnowMan]

I'm stirring it boss, I'm stirring it........ROFLMAO

SnowMan

[[A]1|Sgt.Gunther]

On the equipment balance point, there must be other ways to balance the game without simply giving each side equal equipment.

I'm sure you've thought long and hard about it, but what about price differences, or changing the overnumbers rules?

[{UN}Coolio (Retired)]

Both are sertently posibel, just look at all the RTS games that ballance using quality vs quantity. Question is if people are willing to spend part of the sunday week after week to be meat in the grinder, on the side that is stuck with quantity.

[PuFu_]

Both are sertently posibel, just look at all the RTS games that ballance using quality vs quantity. Question is if people are willing to spend part of the sunday week after week to be meat in the grinder, on the side that is stuck with quantity.

Then that wouldn't be balanced. Quick example: if 2 abrams would cost the same as 3Xt72s (the default ones from Arma, equivalent of the t72A - export version. That would be more or less exact to real life costs) then i think that 3 T72s can do more damage than 2 abrams, or just as much.

[[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD]

Okay this is my RPT file and only 3 lines are because of the bradley. And these "errors" are not major at all (the WarFare buildings have the same "error"). Testing in the editor shows that it has damage textures and the only main issue with is it can drive underwater, BUT it will take damage from doing so (and it moves at a slow speed so any water crossing means boom under the water). These are the M2A2 and M2 version so they can't water cross without the canvas thingy on them, only the M2A3 can cross water without it.

Other smaller issues are no turn out abillity - (I belive we can fix that but not a major problem for me or any other TB guys (we don't like getting sniped out of vechs))
When ordering AI to get in it the say "Get in that BMP-2 at 3 o'clock" but under subtitles it say Bradley M2A2 or Bradley M2
On map it has BMP-2 icon (but we dont use map icons anymore)


RPT file
Cannot find a sound file rh_spas\sound\dry.ogg
Cannot find a sound file rebus_eiweapons\sounds\awpbolt.ogg
String STR_ZU23 not found

Addon vil_jeep (entry VILAS_BRADLEY_06) not found in the list of active addons.
Addon vil_jeep (entry VIL_M242) not found in the list of active addons.
Addon vil_jeep (entry VIL_TOWLauncherBRADLEY) not found in the list of active addons.

Addon warfarebuildings (entry WarfareBWestBarracksRed) not found in the list of active addons.
Addon warfarebuildings (entry WarfareBWestHeadquartersRed) not found in the list of active addons.
Addon warfarebuildings (entry WarfareBWestHeadquartersGreen) not found in the list of active addons.
Addon warfarebuildings (entry WarfareBWestAircraftFactoryRed) not found in the list of active addons.

I also have the armour values on both BMP and the Bradleys and gun damage values for; BMP 30mm cannon (AP and HE), BMP AT-5, Bradley 25mm cannon (AP and HE), Bradley TOW. But that is for balance team

[[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD]

Okay after trying to make it not drive under water (which i couldn't do) i made it float on the water... so it's a floating Bradly (not what i wanted but...) but this is how low it sits in the water;

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/eyeless1990/FloatingMAWHAHAHAHAHAHA.jpg

[PuFu_]

Other smaller issues are no turn out abillity - (I belive we can fix that but not a major problem for me or any other TB guys (we don't like getting sniped out of vechs))Turn out can't be fixed without changing the animations and proxies in the model AFAIK


When ordering AI to get in it the say "Get in that BMP-2 at 3 o'clock" but under subtitles it say Bradley M2A2 or Bradley M2that is because of nameSound = "bmp" can't really make it say "Bradley" unless you define that elsewhere.

On map it has BMP-2 icon (but we dont use map icons anymore)Just make a bradley icon and set that in the config. Easy job really


Okay after trying to make it not drive under water (which i couldn't do) i made it float on the water... so it's a floating Bradly (not what i wanted but...) but this is how low it sits in the water;I think that is because of geometry LOD or Land Contact LOD (although i do wonder where is the land in this :)). Not sure though

[Raptor-6]

1st|Sgt.Gunther;71359']On the equipment balance point, there must be other ways to balance the game without simply giving each side equal equipment.

I'm sure you've thought long and hard about it, but what about price differences, or changing the overnumbers rules?

let's not start this discussion again.

[{RET}Snake Raper]

let's not start this discussion again.

The intervals are definately getting shorter.