HIND- Revisited [Archive] - Theatre of War Forums

[IRT]Super64

7th December 2007, 00:19

As Baz pointed out, there's a new Hind being worked on. This one may have promise! We should watch it closely and test it as soon as he releases it.

I am all for getting away from this mirroring with US equipment thing. So far, there is no option for the Tank yet. But this may be able to replace the "Russian Cobra".

New Hind (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=69;t=70188;st=0)

-----
See this post for the latest on this Mod.
http://www.arma-tow.com/forums/showpost.php?p=62173&postcount=13

[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD

7th December 2007, 03:31

I liked to see it but I dont want it with door gunners like the people in the forums are saying. And since we get rid of gided rockets that will make the hind a UH-60 FRAP with a machine gun kinda will put the hole balence thing out. Right?

[IRT]Super64

7th December 2007, 05:58

2TB|Pvt.Overlord;55567']I liked to see it but I dont want it with door gunners like the people in the forums are saying. And since we get rid of gided rockets that will make the hind a UH-60 FRAP with a machine gun kinda will put the hole balence thing out. Right?

Negative. The Hind would have its normal point and shoot rockets, its nose canon and it would be equipped with our Mando Missile script. All attack helo's have this in ArmA-ToW. Balancing it out wont be a problem. My main concern would be getting the Russians a capable, 2 man, quality attack helo.... thats RUSSIAN.

[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD

15th December 2007, 11:03

yeah but all Mil24 Hinds have a 6 man carry space which (if the russky are smart) use to insert SF. oh wait, we have MH-6 and they dont so this will, in a way, even things out with them having a small load transport chopper.

[IRT]Super64

15th December 2007, 16:55

2TB|Pfc.Overlord;56574']oh wait, we have MH-6 and they dont so this will, in a way, even things out with them having a small load transport chopper.

Actually they do have a Russian skinned MH-6. We did that so they could have a small transport.

[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD

16th December 2007, 22:18

Well if we give them the Hind they can do away with our US birds as the Hind can do both roles as MH-6 and/or AH-1Z. I dont like the commies stealing our technology!:mad:

Wolfbite

18th January 2008, 17:35

[UN]SGen.ViperMaul

18th January 2008, 17:38

Why not just use the RHS Mi-24. It looks great and if pretty accurate.. I dont know why we should ballance things.... thats kind of the whole point of things.. Russian Equipment is totally different from U.S equipment. If you balance things it just waters everthing down.

Because it gives a LOT of .RPT errors and thus is a big contributor to LAG both Server Side and Client Side.

[IRT]Super64

18th January 2008, 17:42

Why not just use the RHS Mi-24. It looks great and if pretty accurate.. I dont know why we should ballance things.... thats kind of the whole point of things.. Russian Equipment is totally different from U.S equipment. If you balance things it just waters everthing down.

I know how you feel about the whole balance thing. Turning US equipment into Russian equipment was a last resort we turned to. That's why im keeping an eye out on mods like this one, that may perform better than one's in the past.

Raptor-6

18th January 2008, 22:49

Why not just use the RHS Mi-24. It looks great and if pretty accurate.. I dont know why we should ballance things.... thats kind of the whole point of things.. Russian Equipment is totally different from U.S equipment. If you balance things it just waters everthing down.

If you had been around about a year ago and played on the Russian army you would know exactly why we did it!! It's not much fun when all the superior equipment is on one side of the battlefield.

[ATOW]BarmyArmy

18th January 2008, 23:56

The current RHS Hind is a "buggy crate", I wouldn't like to use it for more than hanging from my bedroom ceiling, and even then I'd use double strength cotton.

It will not be appearing in its current incarnation on this Tournament.

If they can fix the major list of faults then we will reconsider it.

BA

Why not just use the RHS Mi-24. It looks great and if pretty accurate.. I dont know why we should ballance things.... thats kind of the whole point of things.. Russian Equipment is totally different from U.S equipment. If you balance things it just waters everthing down.

{UN}.Nurmdog

23rd January 2008, 05:53

Unfortunately the damn thing has not been updated, ever. It is still version 1.0 from April 8th of last year.

http://www.armedassault.info/index.php?cat=news&id=293

The pictures of EricM's Mi-24 Hind look sweet.

[IRT]Super64

17th February 2008, 22:21

BIG Mi-24 HIND UPDATE!!

With the recent success of editing the T-72 to recreate a Abrams Russian Hybrid, Ru!ner and I took a look at the Mi-24 Hind project. I had contacted ShadowNX to see if any progress had been made on this very cool Helo since it was released over a year ago, but suffered from major .RPT log file entries when used in MP games. He said no and he'd let me know if they ever got around to fixing it. I had a feeling they have no intentions of looking back at it.

So Ru!ner and I started talking. He ran the Hind's model through Oxygen (the BIS modeling tool recently released). This tool found an error in the models and fixed it. Then, Ru!ner looked at the config file and the .RPT log and got a good idea at what was spitting up another part of the errors. He commented that section out. He then removed the ATGM's and a couple other non-working, non-AToW compliant features and re-PBO'd the Hind. Ive been testing and giving him feedback along the way.

As it stands now, the Hind DOES NOT inflate the .RPT file! I believe this might warrant another look by the Balance team and the Russian side to reconsider as their main Attack Helo. You can grab the FIXED Mi-24 Hind PBO file HERE (http://96.226.99.129:81/Public%20Access/Software/Game%20Files/ArmA/RHS_hind.rar) as prepared for use in AToW. It is ready to be outfitted with the Mando scripts and tested further.

Keep in mind this helo is not supposed to be a mirror image of the US Cobra. Just like any in-game balance, there is give and take in its strengths and weaknesses. This is a different bird than a Cobra, but VERY capable in combat.

Update: After testing the new Hind on my MP dedi server with several of the guys, my arma.rpt file was still only 37kb after about 45min of game play. One thing we need to look at fixing now is the aim-dot placement in the gunner seats view. It currently sits on the cockpit frame work and makes aiming difficult.

[DI]I|Cpl.Dren

17th February 2008, 22:28

What the *bunny love cencor*!!! Did Ru!ner fix the hind?!
Damn!! Are we now offical "The AToW Tournament what fixed the hind"?
damn once more... that is incredible... really... Nice job both!

Steveak44

18th February 2008, 01:04

Ru!ner is a 'bot.

:D

[ATOW]Goschie

18th February 2008, 06:47

What about the mi24 hind? I will probably take a look at it tonight. Wasn't the same problems happening with the mi24? If ruiner could hack that up that would be nice. Wish I had more time on my hands to work on stuff.

BazookaBoy

18th February 2008, 08:32

We need to also check the affect on performance. Although I'm going from memory any issue with this HIND was the texturing and it causing client slowdown when you looked at it. That may just has been a result of the server being slow due to the .rpt errors so it may have already been fixed.

But great work Ru!ner and way to be Ru!ner's test biatch Super :D

{7}21|Burns

18th February 2008, 10:36

this could be a good piece of publicity if you with permission of course release the fixed bird

[DI]I|Cpl.Dren

18th February 2008, 14:09

far as i remember, the hind didnt have low poly model

[IRT]Super64

18th February 2008, 14:09

@ Baz - Yes i remember the texture issue. One of the things Ru!ner did was comment out a section of the config file saying something about "cfgmaterialtextures" or something like that. He said it might make the Hind not look "as shiny" but this was the cause of many of the .RPT errors. Perhaps that had something to do with it.

@ Burns - Ive sent a message to ShadowNX telling him about what we've done and telling him we're still doing some testing. But if this truly does fix it, do we have the permission to release this information on his teams Mod? Id like to hear his response before we start screaming anything just yet. :)

BazookaBoy

18th February 2008, 14:33

RB|1Lt.Dren;62207']far as i remember, the hind didnt have low poly model

yeah taht rings a bell as well. So it will trying to draw everything in full detail even if you're seeing it 2000m away. But if your into the model and editing it I think there are some tools which can convert to low poly. Even if it's an ugly low poly model it would be better than lagging the server

[ATOW]Goschie

18th February 2008, 17:46

Hey guys, Apparently the CfgTextureToMaterial class IS THE PROBLEM. It is a result of lazy programming... The shiny finish should be done in rvmat files. The CTTM class will do it dynamicaly, and oh god, I don't want to imagine the chaos the game is having with all those textures and model angles.... The mi24 hind uses the SAME THING... Question is, should I remove it?:D

EDIT: Oh yeah, and CfgMaterials should be edited or removed....

[ATOW]Goschie

18th February 2008, 18:16

Ok, So As I've been reading the code, it shows all the metal textures of the mi24 hind being packaged in the CTTM class. Then a new class is created using the RHS_Hind Metal pack, in the CfgMaterial class. Then all the rvmat paramters are assigned in that CfgMaterial class to make it "pretty". Sadly, this is an old method and is most likely the reason for the problems with the mi24 and rpt errors...

THE CONFIG CODE:

class CfgTextureToMaterial
{
class RHS_HindMetal
{
textures[] = {"RHS_hind\drus\mi24_wing1d2.pac","RHS_hind\dirq\mi24_wing1d1.pac","RHS_hind\frus\mi24_wing1p2.pac","RHS_hind\frus\mi24_wing1p1.pac","RHS_hind\erus\mi24_wing1e1.pac","RHS_hind\erus\mi24_wing1e2.pac","RHS_hind\drus\mi24_d2.pac","RHS_hind\dirq\mi24_d1.pac", "RHS_hind\erus\mi24_e1.pac", "RHS_hind\erus\mi24_e2.pac", "RHS_hind\frus\mi24_p1.pac", "RHS_hind\frus\mi24_p2.paa", "RHS_hind\frus\mi24_p2.pac"};
material = "#RHS_Hindmetal";
};
};
class CfgMaterials
{
class RHS_Hindmetal
{
ambient[] = {1, 1, 1, 1};
diffuse[] = {1, 1, 1, 1};
forcedDiffuse[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};
emmisive[] = {0, 0, 0, 1};
specular[] = {1, 1, 1, 0};
specularPower = 75;
PixelShaderID = "NormalMapSpecularDIMap";
VertexShaderID = "NormalMap";
class Stage1
{
texture = "RHS_hind\effects\mi24_nohq.paa";
uvSource = "tex";
class uvTransform
{
aside[] = {1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000};
up[] = {0.000000, 1.000000, 0.000000};
dir[] = {0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000};
pos[] = {0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000};
};
};
class Stage2
{
texture = "RHS_hind\effects\mi24_smdi.paa";
uvSource = "tex";
class uvTransform
{
aside[] = {1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000};
up[] = {0.000000, 1.000000, 0.000000};
dir[] = {0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000};
pos[] = {0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000};
};
};
};
};

Now, will ruiner do the rest so I don't go into a code frenzy?;):D

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

18th February 2008, 18:25

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62173']Update: After testing the new Hind on my MP dedi server with several of the guys, my arma.rpt file was still only 37kb after about 45min of game play. One thing we need to look at fixing now is the aim-dot placement in the gunner seats view. It currently sits on the cockpit frame work and makes aiming difficult.

Could I get a copy of the rpt log? Swapping the Ka-50 or AH-1's cannon into the Hind may fix the aim dot problem.

Looking at the Hind in game doesn't seem to cause any slowdowns. This could have been a combination of the bug in the model and the method of normal mapping they were using to try to give it a "shiny" look. It was causing the game engine to spit a lot of errors out into the rpt file every time it tried to render a frame of the chopper.

[IRT]Super64

18th February 2008, 19:13

1st|Pvt.Goschie;62219']Hey guys, Apparently the CfgTextureToMaterial class IS THE PROBLEM. It is a result of lazy programming... The shiny finish should be done in rvmat files. The CTTM class will do it dynamicaly, and oh god, I don't want to imagine the chaos the game is having with all those textures and model angles.... The mi24 hind uses the SAME THING... Question is, should I remove it?:D

EDIT: Oh yeah, and CfgMaterials should be edited or removed....

Goshie, this is the section which Ru!ner commented out in the config file. Immediately after he did this, many of the rpt file errors disappeared. Then it got better after he ran the model thru Oxygen.

@ Ru!ner - Yes I'll send you that rpt file. Are you referring to the one from the server or from my client side?

[ATOW]Goschie

18th February 2008, 20:09

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62230']Goshie, this is the section which Ru!ner commented out in the config file. Immediately after he did this, many of the rpt file errors disappeared. Then it got better after he ran the model thru Oxygen.

@ Ru!ner - Yes I'll send you that rpt file. Are you referring to the one from the server or from my client side?

Yes, I was just comparing your mi17 project with the RHS mi24

[IRT]Super64

18th February 2008, 20:15

1st|Pvt.Goschie;62242']Yes, I was just comparing your mi17 project with the RHS mi24

Not sure if your realizing it, but this is the RHS Hind. We took their and dissected it.

[ATOW]Goschie

18th February 2008, 20:20

Wait, so you are talking about the mi24? I thought you were talking about the mi17... I'm very confused right now...:(

EDIT: Now I think you ment to say mi24.

[IRT]Super64

18th February 2008, 20:24

1st|Pvt.Goschie;62244']Wait, so you are talking about the mi24? I thought you were talking about the mi17... I'm very confused right now...:(

LOL ok you were confusing me too. This thread has been discussing the RHS Mi-24 Hind. We currently have normal BIS Mi-17's already in the game.

[ATOW]Goschie

18th February 2008, 20:30

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62173']BIG Mi-17 HIND UPDATE!!

With the recent success of editing the T-72 to recreate a Abrams Russian Hybrid, Ru!ner and I took a look at the Mi-17 Hind project. I had contacted ShadowNX to see if any progress had been made on this very cool Helo since it was released over a year ago, but suffered from major .RPT log file entries when used in MP games. He said no and he'd let me know if they ever got around to fixing it. I had a feeling they have no intentions of looking back at it.

So Ru!ner and I started talking. He ran the Hind's model through Oxygen (the BIS modeling tool recently released). This tool found an error in the models and fixed it. Then, Ru!ner looked at the config file and the .RPT log and got a good idea at what was spitting up another part of the errors. He commented that section out. He then removed the ATGM's and a couple other non-working, non-AToW compliant features and re-PBO'd the Hind. Ive been testing and giving him feedback along the way.

As it stands now, the Hind DOES NOT inflate the .RPT file! I believe this might warrant another look by the Balance team and the Russian side to reconsider as their main Attack Helo. You can grab the FIXED Mi-17 Hind PBO file HERE (http://96.226.99.129:81/Public%20Access/Software/Game%20Files/ArmA/RHS_hind.rar) as prepared for use in AToW. It is ready to be outfitted with the Mando scripts and tested further.

Keep in mind this helo is not supposed to be a mirror image of the US Cobra. Just like any in-game balance, there is give and take in its strengths and weaknesses. This is a different bird than a Cobra, but VERY capable in combat.

Update: After testing the new Hind on my MP dedi server with several of the guys, my arma.rpt file was still only 37kb after about 45min of game play. One thing we need to look at fixing now is the aim-dot placement in the gunner seats view. It currently sits on the cockpit frame work and makes aiming difficult.

Mi-17? I'm guessing it was just a mess up when naming the chopper.:confused:

[IRT]Super64

18th February 2008, 20:32

lol yes. Typo it seems. I don't think there is an Mi-17 Hind. Thanks for catching that and I'll fix it. Sorry for the confusion! :o

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

18th February 2008, 21:42

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62173']One thing we need to look at fixing now is the aim-dot placement in the gunner seats view. It currently sits on the cockpit frame work and makes aiming difficult.

I see what you mean now, its impossible to accurately aim the rockets. This will take a reworking of the model or possibly just the gunner viewpoint. Another easy solution is to give control of the rockets to the pilot and cannon to the gunner.

[IRT]Super64

19th February 2008, 00:53

I think the best route would be in the direction of how you mentioned trying to outfit it with the KA-50 or Cobra nose gun. Giving the pilot the control over firing rockets would be too big of a tip on the balance scale at this time. Unless the same change was made to the cobra. A gunner is there to operate the guns.

[ATOW]Goschie

19th February 2008, 01:43

I really cant wait for a mi24 to be introduced. It would be so much more entertaining when the russians use there own unique tactics with the troop load. The russians are slowly but really starting to get back on their own feet.:)

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

19th February 2008, 02:57

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62274']I think the best route would be in the direction of how you mentioned trying to outfit it with the KA-50 or Cobra nose gun. Giving the pilot the control over firing rockets would be too big of a tip on the balance scale at this time. Unless the same change was made to the cobra. A gunner is there to operate the guns.

I thought the problem was with the cannon and a scripted sight then. With the cannon, the gun camera doesn't see the frame around the gunner's window. But there is no way to see where you are firing rockets. Changing to the Ka-50 or AH-1 cannon won't effect this. The only way around this besides giving the rockets to the pilot is to move the gunner's viewpoint on the model itself.

[IRT]Super64

19th February 2008, 03:19

hanging to the Ka-50 or AH-1 cannon won't effect this. The only way around this besides giving the rockets to the pilot is to move the gunner's viewpoint on the model itself.
I figured as much. This could be a problem.

Also, I may have come across a real deal breaker as far as using it at AToW. If you fly the Hind at night, the reticule hud lights up red. Looks cool. But you can't see through it!!! Meaning its pretty to look at, but don't try aiming at anything if its dark!!

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

19th February 2008, 06:13

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62281']I figured as much. This could be a problem.

Also, I may have come across a real deal breaker as far as using it at AToW. If you fly the Hind at night, the reticule hud lights up red. Looks cool. But you can't see through it!!! Meaning its pretty to look at, but don't try aiming at anything if its dark!!

Gunner position has been fixed so you can see where your rockets are aiming. The night hud should be fairly easy to correct also. I'll upload it again once I've had a chance to do this.

Raptor-6

20th February 2008, 11:36

1st|Pvt.Goschie;62277']The russians are slowly but really starting to get back on their own feet.:)

LOL what are you talking about???

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

20th February 2008, 12:55

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

20th February 2008, 13:00

LOL what are you talking about???

I think he means from when we spiked the canteens with vodka :p

BazookaBoy

20th February 2008, 13:48

there is something other than vodka in our canteens, the fiends!

[DI]I|Cpl.Dren

20th February 2008, 14:11

Ill try it later today Ru!ner.
(and change your tags back!)

[IRT]Super64

20th February 2008, 14:17

So my post got lost again. I may have made a change to the HUD since I tested it Super... I tried it again on mine and got the solid block this time lol. Its been fixed and uploaded again. Also, the artificial horizon should be easy to get working when I get a few minutes.

Dren: If the LOD tests don't go so well would you mind trying out the latest update? I think their LOD data wasn't setup right so I made some tweaks to it.

Yup i had posted about the solid block gray HUD. Glad you got it fixed. Man, you get that artificial horizon working and we've just about got ourselves a working Hind. With Drens LOD work, we'll really have something to give to the rest of the ArmA community they'll enjoy. When we get it finalized I'll notify ShadowNX (its original creator) of what all we did.

[DI]I|Cpl.Dren

20th February 2008, 14:21

Super, im just testing, dont take ru!ners glory to me ;)
im just poor tester

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

20th February 2008, 14:59

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62314']Yup i had posted about the solid block gray HUD. Glad you got it fixed. Man, you get that artificial horizon working and we've just about got ourselves a working Hind. With Drens LOD work, we'll really have something to give to the rest of the ArmA community they'll enjoy. When we get it finalized I'll notify ShadowNX (its original creator) of what all we did.

Its going to need some balancing also. I corrected the excessively strong armour - they missed an armour config value. But it shouldn't have the same armour values as a Cobra like they set. The Hind is supposed to be fast, heavily armoured, heavily armed and not very maneuverable.

[ATOW]Goschie

20th February 2008, 17:23

Ruiner, are going to put the shiny stuff back into the chopper as rvmat's? Because if you don't, then I will try I guess. It's just I don't have much time, and rvmat stuff is pretty new to me. If you would just give me a sample de-binarized rvmat, then I could figure it out from there.

[DI]I|Cpl.Dren

20th February 2008, 19:04

Well i tryed to test it with Very high and Very low settings, but it didnt make the effect what i wanted. (showed the lowest possible poly model)
i did have the hind and the cobra side by side and nether did have change.
Textures did go more blurryer.
when zooming in and out i noticed small changes on both (like smaller windows disappear).
So i would say that, YES the low poly model should work now. <-- OK!!

other thing that just made me wonder, is the windows of the hind... those seem bit...
picture (http://www.kolumbus.fi/dren/glass.jpg)

also just note, i used supers posted link. it might be out dated.
(hit link here where you upload your updated versions of it)

[IRT]Super64

20th February 2008, 19:15

Yes Dren, the version of the Hind from my post is a few versions behind now.

[7]9|LtCol.JimmyTheDeath

20th February 2008, 20:26

OK the HIND here is where i see that it is un fair towards the US side.
1. i can fly it 25ft off the ground at full speed.
2. bullet prof Glass
3.Cockpit instruments do not work in less this is fixed this bird will not be easy to fly at high altitude in less we increase the air view distance by about 2200M(i know this is not an us disadvantage) but the disadvantage is i can fly straight down and pull up at about 150ft and be flying level and at full speed if u try that in the cobra Your dead past 330 if your pointing more than 45degrees down angle.

I think this bird needs alot of work and i would love to fly it as is i just want you to know where i see the faults if every one is cool for some battle day test cool if i kick the shoot out of u guys during battle don't come back and say there was no post on the Cheep HIND flying in and blowing the shit out of us 10feet off the ground and are small arms fire did nothing to it.
SO IM IN yea i wanna flying tank. I dont mind the instruments not working either, i can get around it im good.

OK jimmy out....

P.S. im around for testing if any one needs me

[DI]I|Cpl.Dren

20th February 2008, 20:36

[sceared voice]...but, but.. that would remove the "Dart" from your name! [/scread voice]

[IRT]Super64

20th February 2008, 21:00

LOL Moving on past 1Lt.Dren's editorial comments....

JD, correct I am aware of the points you made. Ru!ner has said he's able to adjust the Hinds armor level. This could possibly change everything from how the Hind responds to small arms fire, to how it reacts when it impacts the ground at any speed. He's already working on the horizon gauge, so that should be working soon.

And, I have a feeling that since this mod was made by modders, its not using the same un-touchable flight model engine that the stock BIS Cobra uses. Which means it can be changed. Because true, a big air-tank like the Hind shouldn't be able to do a 300 knot nose dive and pull up 100 ft from the ground. lol But only Ru!ner will be able to tell us if this is something he thinks he can tinker with.

Until then, I stand by awaiting to test and give him feed back from a pilots standpoint and as someone who knows what level of balance our tourny requires. But so far, im amazed at what we've done with the Hind.

----
Just to update those following this thread, I wanted to list the things Ru!ner has been able to improve with the rough Hind mod:
Massive .rpt error file size causing lag. - Fixed
Error in basic model of the aircraft causing lag. - Fixed
Missing values in helo's armor config file. - Fixed
Weak/inaccurate nose turret gun. - fixed/replaced
Game Balance issue caused by the Hind carrying 80 dumb-fire rockets. - Fixed/adjusted
Game Balance issue, ATGM missiles. - Fixed/removed
Error message pop up when Gunner selects menu choice "Use Nightvision". - Fixed/removed
Gunners rocket aim-dot in bad location for accurate target alignment. - Fixed
Game Balance issue caused by new .30cal nose canon carrying 1270 rounds. - Fixed/adjusted
Pilots HUD illuminates red at night removing aiming ability - Fixed
Non-working artificial horizon on helo console. - soon to be fixed

{UN}.Nurmdog

21st February 2008, 04:23

Super and Ru!ner, I just flew what I believe to be the latest Hind .pbo. I love the model, the main gun, the speed, etc. It's killer. Great job. Found a few other items that may need to be updated/ improved.

1. Gunner has a carat showing their current view on compass, however they do not have another carat showing dead ahead (front) for the chopper, the AH1 does have that feature.

2. Flight model, at low speed it can turn faster then a AH6! Way too fast turning speed for a Chopper that is supposed to be a flying tank. At high speed it seems to turn well, at a reasonable rate. Speed is great, as a Hind SHOULD be. Speed is not an issue, just turn rate, primarily at low speed. At altitude of 20 I was cruising at 50 knots and did a roll left and flew upside down for a bit, also not something a flying tank should be able to do.

Great start though, so much potential, it is a dream come true to fly a Hind.

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

21st February 2008, 15:37

1st|2Lt.Nurmdog;62394']2. Flight model, at low speed it can turn faster then a AH6! Way too fast turning speed for a Chopper that is supposed to be a flying tank. At high speed it seems to turn well, at a reasonable rate. Speed is great, as a Hind SHOULD be. Speed is not an issue, just turn rate, primarily at low speed. At altitude of 20 I was cruising at 50 knots and did a roll left and flew upside down for a bit, also not something a flying tank should be able to do.

I haven't flown it much so thanks for the info. There are a few parameters that can be tweaked for the flight model so I'll see about making it perform more like a flying tank :p

Also the bulletproof cockpit glass is easily fixable.

[IRT]Super64

21st February 2008, 15:41

I haven't flown it much so thanks for the info. There are a few parameters that can be tweaked for the flight model so I'll see about making it perform more like a flying tank :p

Also the bulletproof cockpit glass is easily fixable.

Ru!ner dude you never cease to amaze me. I think the flight handling and the cockpit glass are some of the final issues to look at on this bird. Like Nurmdog pointed out, it's just a little too easy to whip it around at low speeds. Fly around in it you'll see.

Also, one thing I would like you to change. I see you set the 30cal rounds to 750. Lets set it to 1000. While better than the original "shotgun" the Hind came with, it still does not have as focused of a point of fire as the Cobra can do. Sometimes it takes up to 3 bursts just to hit one infantry soldier at a long distance. So give it a few more rounds in the ammo bucket. Each of those bursts is 10 rounds.

Let me know when the latest is uploaded. Good work!

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

21st February 2008, 23:01

Or I can tweak the cannon's accuracy a little. I also changed the pilot's view a bit by moving it up higher. The top of the instrument panel was almost at chin level before.

[IRT]Super64

21st February 2008, 23:53

Or I can tweak the cannon's accuracy a little. I also changed the pilot's view a bit by moving it up higher. The bottom of the instrument panel was almost at chin level before.

Sure, if you can focus the round groupings just a bit more. Just let me know when it's updated! Oh, the excitement. lol

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

22nd February 2008, 03:16

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62463']Sure, if you can focus the round groupings just a bit more. Just let me know when it's updated! Oh, the excitement. lol

Updates:

- cockpit glass is no longer bulletproof
- artificial horizon is working
- cannon should be more accurate and has 1000 rounds
- armour has been bumped up a bit

If this is good I'll take a look at tweaking the flight model a bit and then adding the shiny finish. Plus shading the glass to make Dren happy.

[IRT]Super64

22nd February 2008, 04:07

Updates:

- cockpit glass is no longer bulletproof
- artificial horizon is working
- cannon should be more accurate and has 1000 rounds
- armour has been bumped up a bit

If this is good I'll take a look at tweaking the flight model a bit and then adding the shiny finish. Plus shading the glass to make Dren happy.

- cockpit glass - Gunner seat yes, Pilot seat no. Although i only fired from the sides. A cobra was able to kill me in the pilot seat when firing straight in front of me.

- artificial horizon is working - LIKE A CHAMP! And is easy to read. Good job.

- cannon should be more accurate and has 1000 rounds. - It still shows 750rds to me. The bullet spread does seem tighter though.

- armour has been bumped up a bit. - hard to tell from the limited testing i did.

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

22nd February 2008, 05:23

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62470']- cockpit glass - Gunner seat yes, Pilot seat no. Although i only fired from the sides. A cobra was able to kill me in the pilot seat when firing straight in front of me.
Thought I had the entire pilots window selected, I guess it was only the front pane. Fixed.

- cannon should be more accurate and has 1000 rounds. - It still shows 750rds to me. The bullet spread does seem tighter though.
I had too many files open; I guess I forgot to save the new magazine lol. Fixed.

- armour has been bumped up a bit. - hard to tell from the limited testing i did.
Should only take a few more rounds to kill.

I also bumped up the weight which makes it more sluggish in the air. This might need a bit more adjustment still.

[IRT]Super64

22nd February 2008, 14:13

Great.. Upload and i'll test it out!

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

22nd February 2008, 14:39

You should have it already.

This (http://www.asiatradingonline.com/russianhelicopter24-2.htm) also may be worth looking into.

[IRT]Super64

22nd February 2008, 22:07

Ok Ru!ner, i was so excited I went home for lunch and took it for some test flying. Improved indeed!

I think we're pretty close on the weight. It was slower to turn at low speeds and if I nose dived from high altitude I was unable to just pull up short of the ground.

But I think the armor might be a little *too* strong. Using a Humvee .50 cal, it took 2 1/2 ammo boxes/belts to down the Hind. Meaning i fired the 50cal, ran out of rounds. Waited the 15 seconds or so for it to reload, fired again till it ran out of rounds. Reloaded again and got about half way through the 3rd belt before the Hind started to smoke and fall from the sky. Thats some freakin good armor! lol Might be a little too good.

The nose gun is perfect now! Fires on target and 1000 rounds feels just right. Dumb-fire missiles are spot on too.

You may want to move the pilots seat back down just a hair. There is what looks like a (non-functional) directional alert box on the top of the cockpit glass that really blocks seeing other air targets when they are at eye level (flying). When they pilot sat lower in the seat, it wasn't a big deal. Now that you've raised it, im having trouble getting a good look at the AI flown Cobra's during test dog fights.

Glass is working correctly and is now not bullet proof from all directions on both cockpits.

[ATOW]Goschie

22nd February 2008, 22:10

The mi24's had really good armor.. so.. yeah..

The russians created some of the best helo's in the world, so lets not take away to much of it's glory.;)

[IRT]Super64

22nd February 2008, 22:31

1st|Pvt.Goschie;62510']The mi24's had really good armor.. so.. yeah..

The russians created some of the best helo's in the world, so lets not take away to much of it's glory.;)

Goshie, but when creating equipment for ArmA.... a game, you have to keep game balance in mind. Nothing in our tourny is 100%, by the book, straight off the War channel, off the blue prints... accurate.

And, Im sure you'd change your tune after a battle day when your entire unit is wiped out repeatedly by a Hind hovering right over you, impervious to everyones gun fire. All you'll see is the flashing of the nose canon and Jimmy's smiling face. lol

[ATOW]Goschie

23rd February 2008, 00:30

*Flash backs of Red Dawn*

Yeah, I guess your right. But just remember to leave all the reasons it was made intact. Transport/Attack

[UN]SGen.ViperMaul

23rd February 2008, 01:02

[IRT]Super64

23rd February 2008, 01:25

First of all Great Work Ru!ner, Super64 and everyone else committed to testing!

Are we doing our Testing on 1.09?
As the armor and damage is change in 1.09 and beyond.
So we might as well balance versus those vehicles firing ability.

Well my testing today, Hind vs .50cal, happen to be in 1.09. But good point I'll base all testing on 1.09 since thats when the Hind will most likely make its AToW appearance.

[IRT]Super64

23rd February 2008, 04:18

A little promo vid i put together to spread around. Figure it can get people excited about the Hind and AToW all at once! :D

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pohc56gNEzE

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

23rd February 2008, 07:35

Nice. So I sent you a new pbo (note the new rar name). It has the normal map (shininess) turned back on, all of the flight instruments have been enabled, the cannon tweaked a bit more and the armour reduced.

The 30mm cannon it had should be a fixed cannon. The other turreted cannon the Hind was equipped with was a twin barrel 23mm. I reduced the damage of the 30mm slightly and matched the number of rounds to 2 magazines for the 23mm.

BazookaBoy

23rd February 2008, 08:34

really excellent work from both of you.

AToW.DaMan

23rd February 2008, 08:38

Can I get a copy for my dedicated server?
Please?

Steveak44

23rd February 2008, 13:46

AToW.DaMan

23rd February 2008, 13:47

Well the Cobras doesnt.

[IRT]Super64

23rd February 2008, 16:43

looks awesome. can't wait to get some time to try it.

is everyone sure they want to go with unarmored glass? From a gunts POV I'm all for it :p but for the realism freaks doesn't most attack helo glass stop at least small arms fire?

Steveak, the Cobra's pilots can be killed with even a 9mm pistol while in their seats. And its been that way since arma was released. I think the Hind pilots will be alright.

@ DaMan - yeah i can get you a copy. Note that this is most likely NOT the final version. So don't get too attached to it.

Steveak44

23rd February 2008, 16:58

No kidding, huh? I guess I was not clear. My point is that I do not want armored glass in any helo because I want to kill you but if you were throw the realism guys a bone they should all have armored glass. Attack helo meant Cobra, KA, and Hind

[IRT]Super64

23rd February 2008, 17:32

Ah I see your point. Id love bullet resistant glass in the cobra. But im not sure we can even edit a BIS pbo in that manner.

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

23rd February 2008, 18:33

MAW|MajGen.Super64;62569']Ah I see your point. Id love bullet resistant glass in the cobra. But im not sure we can even edit a BIS pbo in that manner.

It would probably be far too much work to get the pbo in an editable state to be worth it. Something like the frankentank may be possible with modified hitglass parameters.

I also forgot to mention I bumped up the rpm on the nose turret... the GSh-23 is supposed to fire 3500 rpm. The Cobra's M197 fires 750 rpm but has a slightly higher muzzle velocity from its 20mm round. And I changed the sound from the 30mm cannon's sound.

[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD

23rd February 2008, 21:59

Well BI has just relased sample models not sure if thier are the cobra and stuff like that so maybe you can make the cobra have bullet proof glass.

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=2804

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

23rd February 2008, 23:52

TB|LCpl.Overlord;62579']Well BI has just relased sample models not sure if thier are the cobra and stuff like that so maybe you can make the cobra have bullet proof glass.

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=2804

Nice, all of the choppers are in there. The only air model they had released up to this point was the A-10.

[IRT]36th|CPL.OV3RLORD

24th February 2008, 05:03

Nice, all of the choppers are in there. The only air model they had released up to this point was the A-10.

Thats nice to know plus all the other models have been relased check out armaholic their's links to all of the sample models there.

- Vehicles and weapons sample models
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=2804

- Environment sample models
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=2802

- Creature sample models
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=2803

[7]9|PA.ru!ner

25th February 2008, 03:43

One last update - fixed the horizon gauge. Just finally noticed that I had wired the bank axis up backwards. It is already uploaded.

[IRT]Super64

25th February 2008, 15:00

lol Yeah some guy noticed that in my video. I took another look and verified it. Thanks.

[DI]I|Cpl.Dren

25th February 2008, 15:11

Its not realistic, i demand bulletproof glass!!!!

[IRT]Super64

25th February 2008, 15:14

RB|1Lt.Dren;62802']Its not realistic, i demand bulletproof glass!!!!

LOL Dren you've been reading the BIS forums too much. There are some idiots over there.

[UN]SGen.ViperMaul

27th February 2008, 18:18

THAT VIDEO IT OUTSTANDING!!!
Great Choice of Music! Great Choice of Words! The MOD by ru!ner looks very good and promising!

I have never been more proud of an ATOW video. EVER! I mean no disrepect to the other fine ATOW videos I have or not seen.

I wish stage6 wasn't closing its doors because I prefer their quality over uTube. Perhaps we can use Divx codec to add quality in the final production. Some how to show our desire for high quality goals could be supported by our video quality.

Keep up the Great Work Everyone!!