NWD_tankFCS

[[8]72|Pvt.SnowMan]

NonWonderDog has released his Tank fire control system.

--Snippet--
Description

This mod replaces just about everything that has anything to do with firing the guns on a tank.

First off, shell damage and trajectories are changed to be more in line with reality (APFSDS rounds will travel 100km+ in real life!), and the coaxial machineguns fire at their real cyclic rate.

That's not why you want it, though. In addition to changing the ballistic properties of the shells, this mod adds a simulation of the real fire control computers of both the T-72M and the M1A1 Abrams. The fire control works nearly exactly as it does in the real tanks (with a couple caveats), down to the smallest details I could find.

Additional information along with a couple of videos can be found here: http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=70&t=69123&st=0

I did a cursory test and it looks REALY COOL and performs well. :D
Can we get this into our testing schedule?


SnowMan

[[IRT]Super64]

I say definitely! If we could make the inside of the tanks and the way they act as close to real Russian and US tanks as possible, it wouldn't make it so bad having the mirrored equipment.

Snowman I say test away and post some screen shots with your review of it.

[Raptor-6]

It really sounds cool with one BIG but! The description of firing at moving targets below gives me the impression that it will give even more of an advantage to the M1A1. Something that is exactly contrary to what we need.



M1A1:

To fire at a moving target, you must smoothly track the target with the reticle for 1.5 seconds before you lase. Once you lase the target, the sights will jump in front of the target to apply the proper amount of lead, while the reticle stays exactly where you put it. Continue to track the target with the reticle, and fire. If you've carried this out properly, you will hit the target. If the target changes speeds, all you need to do is continue to track the target for at least 1.5 seconds before firing. If the target changes range during this time, you can lase again--the laser always points to the center of the reticle.


T72M
To fire at a moving target, you must place the target within the red laser mark, track the target smoothly, and hold down the lase key for ~1.5 seconds. As long as you are holding the lase key, the lead will continue to be updated. If you are using a joystick, you will not be able to hold down the joystick button to accomplish the same thing. Pressing a joystick button mapped to "Lock Target" is equivalent to tapping a keyboard key mapped to "Lock Target". As a result, the lead will only be averaged over the 0.1 seconds after you press the lase button. Fortunately, this is actually good enough if you are smoothly tracking the target.

As the lead is computed, it will be displayed by red LED numbers to either the left or right side of the reticle. When you release the lase key, the number will freeze. To fire on the target, place the top of the mil mark on the same side as the lead display that corresponds to the number on the lead display over the target, and fire. For example, if you are tracking a swiftly moving target that moves left to right across your view, the lead may be displayed as "22,0" on the left side of the reticle. To hit the target, place the top of the small dash on the left side labeled "22" on the target and fire. If none of that made sense to you (it doesn't make sense to me when I read it), watch the video.

[[IRT]Super64]

Raptor, we'll still be using M1A1's on both sides. So it will be equal standing. ;)

[Raptor-6]

Raptor, we'll still be using M1A1's on both sides. So it will be equal standing. ;)

SOLD!!!! ------

[[IRT]Super64]

Cool! I just watched this vid. Check out the tanks tracers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkuG7yMTgH8

Also, I noticed it was able to track, lock and shoot down a low flying helo. (gulp)

Looks like he's still adding to it! We should keep an eye on it as it develops.

still need to add:
-- commanders' optics
-- night sights
-- varying magnification levels
-- trunnion tilt corrections
-- fixed tank models

[SnowBall]

So when can we look at getting away from the mirrored equipment "Feature" of our tournament?

[[IRT]Super64]

So when can we look at getting away from the mirrored equipment "Feature" of our tournament?

Well the main problem is the modding community. No one seems interested in modding a T-90. Or any other modern version of a Russian tank. I don't know if its a technical barrier or they just feel its not needed. Feel free to comb other forums for WIP mod's that might remove our "feature". But at this time I doubt you'll find them. Which is unfortunate.

[Steveak44]

looks cool. That might tempt me into a tank. ;) Since we, unfortunately, still have the mirror equipment we don't have the balance issue. Let it rip.

[[DI]I|Cpl.Dren]

T-90 (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=69;t=69281).
There you go! Keep eye on it

[[IRT]Super64]

T-90 (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=69;t=69281).
There you go! Keep eye on it

He's been working on that thing forever. Ive given up getting excited about it. But thanks for the link, at least we can keep an eye on it.

[Raptor-6]

So here is a question. If the tanks are going to get targeting capability that will allow automatic lead compensation for moving targets, how will that affect the other vehicles in the game such as the BMP, BRDM, Stryker's etc? With the targeting in the tanks, there is no way these vehicles can be effective against them. We need to evaluate this when we test the mod out. We also may want to consider some enhanced capabilities for the vehicles with AT capabilities, (like missile lock or equivalent target lead capability).

[[IRT]Super64]

Definitely we would test a mod like this before throwing it in battle. It does have the ability to become too powerful. But you might be on to something with setting up on an AT vehicle.

[{UN}outlaw]

nice find guys wow thats looks so cool that the tank getting overhauled cool

[Wolf]

Looks cool BUT What we have works in game and Raptor's point is very well made. I would love to get into this level of realism, but we are playing Arma not VBS.

Unless all the elements have the same advantages, it would just be (as I belive you Americans say) a turkey shoot.

Lets work with what we have until more mods come out.

[SnowBall]

Looks cool BUT What we have works in game and Raptor's point is very well made. I would love to get into this level of realism, but we are playing Arma not VBS.

Unless all the elements have the same advantages, it would just be (as I belive you Americans say) a turkey shoot.

Lets work with what we have until more mods come out.

Well, I think the rumble of tank treads should strike fear in the hearts of lowly grunts on the ground. The M1 is the biggest baddest piece of machinery on the battlefield. OK granted this is Arma not VBS, I still think we should use as much realism as we can, cause we use realism in our advertising. I'll let the powers that be decide weather or not we get to use this mod. Thats my two cents. (Or sense as it were.)

[[DI]I|Cpl.Dren]

I would first want to see bigger map and more players.
i dont see reason for "why not" when we have bigger map.
Now we are in more of CQB and it makes the tanks too overpowered.

[SnowBall]

I would first want to see bigger map and more players.
i dont see reason for "why not" when we have bigger map.
Now we are in more of CQB and it makes the tanks too overpowered.

See, I disagree. A tank because of its size is made for wide open spaces. Having it fight in a CQB environment, does not play to its strengths. Therefore, the tank would be a sitting duck inside city limits. An AT guy could hide behind a doorway then pop out after the tank rolls by. I think there are too many people that want to attack a tank head on, and try to out muscle it. (Not recommended.) You have to out smart you opponent here, not just out gun it. Thats part of what makes online play so much fun.

[[8]72|Pvt.SnowMan]

It's nice to see that this has generated some dialog.

Now here's the scoop:
First off, it is NOT a laser guided tank round.
Second, it is not nearly as easy to use as the video shows.

For a moving target, the gunner needs to track his target for 1.5 seconds BEFORE he can LASE the target. Once LASED, the computer calculates lead and hold over and adjusts the sights automatically. The tracking of the target is NOT done automatically for the gunner. The gunner still needs to keep his target in the aiming reticle before he fires to make an affective shot.

For a stationary target, the gunner simply places his target in the reticle, LASES his target and fires. In this case, it's no different then how it currently works, with the exception of the hold over, which is automatically done by the computer.

I'll post a mission that I've been using to test this after I clean it up a little. Nothing fancy, just a bare bones mission.

[[IRT]Super64]

The only question I really need to ask myself though is, "is this something needed or just a new shiny toy?" By that I mean, currently are tank gunner's having an unusually hard time hitting their targets and we need to swing the balance a bit by giving them this ability? Or is this a case of "oh oh oh its new and I want it!" ?

[[8]72|Pvt.SnowMan]

The only question I really need to ask myself though is, "is this something needed or just a new shiny toy?" By that I mean, currently are tank gunner's having an unusually hard time hitting their targets and we need to swing the balance a bit by giving them this ability? Or is this a case of "oh oh oh its new and I want it!" ?


As are most features that we have included, It's OH!, OH!, OH!. this is cool!
One step closer to realism. Which, as my understanding is, where we are attempting to go with this tournament.


If it weren't for that, we would not have MANDO missiles, SAMs, Flares, etc., etc.

[[IRT]Super64]

If it weren't for that, we would not have MANDO missiles, SAMs, Flares, etc., etc.

Not true. The Mando Missile system was brought into the tournament not just because it was cool But to provide an effective tool to balance air and ground forces. The default BIS stingers and strella's were inadequate for our environment.

Same thing with SAM's. Helo's could still too easily dominate and we needed another tool to balance. Plus, SAM's pave the way for a counter solution for fixed wing when the time comes.

Flares were needed to counter ground AA and give the helo's a chance. They were a needed tool. Not just a 'oh its cool lets have it item'. They were needed.

Yesterday on the ToW server you and I were playing in a pub match. I sat on a hill in a tank and using its zoom shot down 2 helo's in the air and then hit 3 pieces of moving armor at what had to be close to a mile away. It took me one shot mostly, 2 shots max to hit. It then occurred to me that maybe tanks do just fine hitting targets and a lock on system isnt needed.

I still want to give this system a full test and even try it in a FunTest if possible.

[[8]72|Pvt.SnowMan]

I still want to give this system a full test and even try it in a FunTest if possible.

That's all that I'm attempting to do. If enough people are interested in it, then we should get it in for testing.